I don't believe their ever was a royalty, actually Simmons kept selling his special vent rib model 12's after the 1955 introduction of the Winchester Special Vent Rib @ New Haven. Simmons Gun Specialties rib has been added to barrel. Small depression in the magazine tube, as shown in pictures. A Simmons Rib has been added to the barrel and the metal was refinished. This test, along with a check of adjustment remaining in the takedown joint and functioning of the slide lock dis-connector, are my standard mechanical checks for a Model 12. Winchester Model 12 16 ga NIB Never Assembled! Keep in mind that all of these changes in stock design were running changes and thus some overlapping of designs occurred in production. Both shotguns shot to point of aim and all patterns were contained on the target paper due to precise aiming, facilitated by placing a 25-pound sack of lead shot between me and the gun butt. The new Model 12 duck gun was introduced to long-range waterfowl hunters habituated to heavy double shotguns chambered for 3-inch shells. I rebuilt all of the trigger assemble with all new parts just reusing the guard. Standard markings, with matching numbers on the receiver and barrel. The perimeter of the disc was then marked and the enclosed pellet holes counted. so recall pads helped and they offerd hydro coil-stocks. John Olin wanted a new 3-inch .410 shotshell with 3/4-ounce of shot for Winchesters new Model 42. Winchester Model 12 16Ga Pump Shotgun 28" Excellent condition Made in 1939 Gun #: 903285649 Seller: JerArms GA Sales: 60 $872.00 Full Details More from this Seller 1 Image (s) Winston Churchill custom Winchester Model 12 Pigeon 20 gauge, gold relief, staggering wood, provenan. Condition: excellent bright bore, 98% blue overall thinn, Winchester Model 12. Winchester Model 12 in 16 ga with a 26" barrel with a full choke. The help you need is to get a life. Askins Ithaca 10-gauge double with 2 7/8-inch chambers averaged 86.9% with 1 5/8-ounces of shot. The Olins soon added to the attractiveness of the Model 12 duck gun by bringing out a new 1 5/8-ounce load for the 3-inch shell. He spent many years as firearms editor for Outdoor Life and later Field and Stream, as well as shotgun editor for the American Rifleman. If you pull the trigger and the shell does not fire you must push the slide handle forward to unlock the action. The first was helping the gunsmiths. The Olins bought Winchester for $8.1 million through a combination of $3.3 million cash and the balance in an issue of preferred stock. I had a friend who is deceased now that did extensive research on the Model 12 2-pin rib. winchester model 12 heavy duck gun 30" simmons vent rib 1953 pre-64 rare 12 ga. magnum 3" edition proof marking - 12 gauge magnum - 5 - 30 " No Reserve. A red rubber Winchesterre coil pad was added the first year of production. Results and Discussion The paired pattern percentages fired by the two duck guns with each of the five loads were not significantly different, judging by the overlapping standard deviations. It has a Simmons rib, which is not out of the question for Winchester to have used according to Maddis in his book of the model 12's. The metal finish is superior to a field grade gun, higher polish and a matted receiver top and magazine tube. the barrel and chamber are bright and clean. becouse plain barrels shoot higher than solid ribs do ,solid ribs shoot flatter. WINCHESTER MODEL 12 HEAVY DUCK GUN 30" SIMMONS VENT RIB 1953 PRE-64 RARE 12 GA. MAGNUM 3" EDITION PROOF MARKING - 12 GAUGE MAGNUM - 5 - 30 " The rib wasn't offered until 1954 according to the Dave Riffle Model 12 book so it wasn't originally produced at the Winchester Factory. It was John Olin who inspired Westerns revolutionary Super-Xshotshell in 1921. Not sure how many of you know this, but the rib has a serial number stamped on the underside of them with the same number stamped on the underside of the barrel. would buy from again without hesitation, Smith & Wesson S&W Vintage Screwdriver 8 Row Knurled Handle used (#234907824646), Remington 700 stamped metal Magazine Follower .222 .223 .17 used nice (#334728927905). The duck gun sent to the American Rifleman staff in 1935 would not unlock during recoil. Guns.com is built to be simple easily organized products, useful descriptions from experts, and support to guide you to the right choice. Elmer Keith instructs:For the man who wants greater range and a bigger shot load for duck or goose shooting, the Model 12 Winchester is in a class by itself [with] the long 3 load. Nevertheless, the 1 7/8-ounce load appeared in the mid-50s and now a full two ounces of shot can be had in the 12 magnum. I believe the blueing to be original. Must be shipped to an FFL, New price, Listed is a like new Winchester DU, Model-12, 12 Ga Pump Shotgun. Johnson, at once one of the great gun designers and one of the least known, produced a steady flow of new firearm designs for Winchester. 30" Full choke barrel. The Model 12, already 23 years old, was one of many successful designs by Thomas C. Johnson. Two birds tumble all awry from among the leaders. Then people would choose a grade of model 12 and add or change things to ther hunting or shooting style. Factroy finish on metal, custom wood. Rudy was well known with model 12' s and pre-64 model 70's now as far a Felix, he's in a better place now. My wife shot her share of ducks with a 20-gauge autoloader bored Improved Cylinder shooting one ounce of #7 1/2-shot. The fact that the Winchester proof marks are now 'off set', caused me to believe the gun may have been returned to the factory for the rib installation. Model 42s with later ribs than the donut post, with no Simmons markings or with Simmons markings, and with proof marks in the proper places are thought to have had their ribs installed at Simmons and sent back to Winchester for marketing or marketed at Simmons. Winchester suggests their 3-inch 12-gauge shotshells with 1 3/8-ounces or 1 5/8-ounces of #4 shot for wildfowl hunting in their 1951 Ammunition Handbook: These shells were developed especially for extremes in long range shooting with 12-gauge Winchester Model 12 and Model 21 Heavy Duck Guns.. Simmons also removed Solid Ribs from barrels and added his rib to those barrels. Dolphin717, please give us a page reference in Stadt where he mentions Simmons sending Model 12s with ribs back to Winchester for finishing, and/or marketing. If it's a 12 gauge, replacement factory butt stocks can be hard to come by. It was a little rough so I am doing a restoration. His shotguns were undoubtedly the best long-range duck guns he found in extensive testing. 1935 3" magnum offerd, will convert all 12 gages if wanted to 3" magnums, the begining of the long forcing cone. You jack the shell out and it goes off under your nose. Action works perfectly. It is general consensus that 10 patterns are required for an accurate appraisal of a given load and barrel combination. Mar 24, 2023 Winchester Model 12 Shotgun $150 Mar 24, 2023 Two Winchester Pump Shotguns $150 Mar 24, 2023 L.C. The first thing you notice when you pick up a duck gun is its weight and solid feel. He did note, however, that the rib first appeared at about serial number 240,000. is 14" with pad. Experts can attest to the vast improvements they have found shooting with the Simmons Ventilated Rib. Everything functions as it should. Eight major concealed carry insurance programs are now available to the millions of Americans who carry concealed. In those good old days of the 1960s the ducks flew just above the cattails and shots were plentiful. I also have seen a few in my day where the solid rib was removed and actually sent a customers Black Diamond to Simmons back in the seventies to put a vent rib on a solid rib gun. I used to club trap targets with it. Winchester undertook preparations for improvements in its firearms line following World War II. The ducks shot by me in the accompanying photograph were taken with Skeet boring and trap loads of #7 1/2-shot. 12 Gauge, This is a very nice Winchester Model 12 Trap pump action shotgun in 12 gauge. winchester model 12 description: for sale is a very nice vintage winchester model 12, 12ga ga shotgun. This product contains chemicals known to the state of California to cause cancer and birth defects or other reproductive harm. Winchester installed Simmons ribs and Simmons-designed ventilated ribs for several years. According to my source your Model 12 Winchester was made in 1924, so it is 89 years old. The 12 month average price is $622.51 new and $661.18 used. The Olins were businessmen first and duck hunters second. , Excellent Winchester Model 12 12 gauge Deluxe Skeet gun with factory issued Cutts Compensator. Click here for more information. another state. The shotgun featured here was made in 1976 and is in stellar condition. Item . Tommy, I would be interested in one of the guns you describe. Along in the 1920s a few bold souls had long-chambered [3-inch], overbored, long-barreled, and heavy, long range 12-gauge Magnum double guns built. Thanks for all the info,my Grandfather died when I was in 12th grade in 1971 and I now have his field grade Mod.12 and 9 others love them all.I also have my Great Grandfathers Mod.97. The Model 12 was the first magazine repeater chambered for 3-inch magnum shells. Both guns were disassembled, cleaned and lightly oiled before testing. Simmons vent rib and custom AA+ walnut furniture. The new 1935-style buttstock featured a closer and fuller pistol grip. Whether you're looking for a truck gun, something for the bug out bag, or a do-anything firearm we have you covered. Clear (Winchester Wikipedia Page) 22 Item(s) Found Page 1 1. For small bores, there are still new factory wood sets available. Rib Boat, Winchester Winchester Rifle Parts, 12 in Frame 12 in Wheel Electric Bikes, 12 Gauge Barrels, Youth Football Rib Protector . Save my name and email to use for future comments. One of my favorite subjectsI've read and reread the books by Madis, Riffle, and Stadt, and I still find it a little confusing. So here is a history lesson on the skeet grade. There are Simmons marketed guns with proper Winchester proof marks. Must ship to an FFL. We'rebringing a level of Standard Grade: 12-, 16-, 20- and 28-gauge; plain, solid or ventilated rib round barrels; standard lengths 26", 28", 30", 32"; plain walnut pistol-grip stock; grooved slide handle. My name is Chuck 620 515 0556. 1 9-16" DAC, 1 9-16" DAH, 14 1/2, Very good plus overall condition. own to figure out what you want. No Reserve. By signing up you agree to Guns.com's The Nylon 66, a relatively inexpensive rimfire with faux woodgrain, was the first successful synthetic-stock firearm. The trap load was included because trap shooting is suited to the duck gun. Askins wrote in his 1929 book Modern Shotguns and Loads: Perhaps half the game that is killed in America today is shot with repeating shotguns, pump or automatic. THE VENTILATED RIB IS BY SIMMONS GIN, 16ga, Full Choke, 26" barrel with a bright and shiny bore. Ronald Stadt states in Winchester Shotguns and Shot-shells: All Winchester special ventilated rib magnum guns examined have sand-blasted receiver tops. Solid ribs were offered until the mid-1950s, except as noted by Stadt: The 1960 wholesale-retail catalog listed 30-inch solid rib pidgeon magnums. Range was 40 yards from gun muzzle to target frame. Exquisite Winchester Model 12, 20 gauge with Modified bore. Come join the discussion about optics, hunting, gunsmithing, styles, reviews, accessories, classifieds, and more! As you know that, Winchester Model 12 (factory original) 28-gauge pump action shotgun. Used Winchester Model 12 20 Gauge 26" barrel WS-1 choked skeet Cutts compensator with restriction inserts good condition reduced, Winchester Model 12 Pigeon Grade 12 Gauge. This fine shotgun comes from the factory with a Cutts choke system, Metal surfaces rate near excellent, handling marks to wood. Lot 6593: Winchester Model 42 Slide Action Shotgun with Simmons Vent RibAuction Date: February 17, 2023. George Watrous, a longtime Winchester employee with many talents, was commissioned to investigate the good and bad points of Winchesters pre-war line and make suggestions for postwar improvement. 1934 skeet grade offerd. later on flinching became a problem with 12 gauge shooters becouse of 300 round tournaments. SAME RECEIVER AS MODEL 12 BUT MAD, Guns Listing ID: 640773MAKE - WINCHESTERMODEL - 12FINISH - BLUEDBARREL - 28\"CALIBER - 12 GAUGECAPACITY - N/AGRIPS - WOODCONDITION - VERY GOODFEATURES - HYDRACOIL STOCK & MODIFIED BARREL, Winchester Model 1912 Nickel Steel 20 gauge EARLY Serial # Up for sale is a used Winchester Model 1912 Nickel Steel 20 ga, 2 3/4" chamber, 24" VR barrel stamped full but reads IM on a bra, Winchester - Model 12 Factory Try-Gun, 12ga. Manufactured in 1959. Such were the men of the long-range duck-hunting cult. Edwin Pugsley, in charge of Winchester at the time of receivership, is quoted in Williamsons book: The purchase of the company by the Olin interests brought a breath of life to the institution and brought to Winchester many things. Including this gun, they found a total of 4 gun with a 1919 date. According to the Serial# 1439865, and Winchester manufacturing records, this gun w. 12ga, #366988, 30 inch barrel, 2 1/2 inch chamber, full choke, solid rib, blue finish, straight grip checkered walnut stock, checkered walnut forearm, 13 3/4 LOP with "newer" Winchester pad, 12ga, #1417110, 30 inch barrel, 3 inch chamber, full choke, blue finish, walnut stock and forearm, solid rib, original red rubber pad, 1954. Model 12 Skeet Pump Shotgun. 2023 Rock Island Auction Company. The vent rib is stamped "SIMMONS GUN SPECIALTIES INC. KANSAS CITY, MO.". Also available initially were standard trap and special trap grades. Regards Chuck. Look for an offset proof mark on the barrel to indicate whether the rib came on the gun or was fitted aftermarket. For specifics on Copyright Law and McIntosh notes that the Super-X shotshell was a breakthrough to the modern age of shotgun ammunition. In a full-page ad in the September 1926 issue of the American Rifleman, Western claimed Killing power 15 to 20 yards beyond the effective range of ordinary loads.This was based on a documented reduction in stringing of the shot charge, from about 20 feet to about 4 feet, at 42 yards. Terms and Conditions and Privacy Policy. I am anxious to get it back from the engraver. If not it has been shot very little and stored under the right conditions. The used value of a WINCHESTER MODEL 12 shotgun has fallen ($310.78) dollars over the past 12 months to a price of $447.25 . Solid rib model 12 made in 1954. Most everything can be easily bought online these days. Madis comments Fancy walnut was considered too fancy for the rough treatment often given a duck gun. Fancy walnut could be ordered and the few pidgeon-grade duck guns had fancy walnut. The gun weighed 8 1/2 pounds with its 32-inch Full choke barrel. When winchester changed the chamber to 3" did they mark the barrels or reproof? . Initially came a series of auto-loading rifles, including the rimfire Model 1903 and centerfire rifles, culminating with the Model 1910, chambered for the 401 WSL cartridge. Only rib extensions of the same width as the factory ventilate drib are found on receivers of duck guns. Buttstocks of duck guns had lead slugs inserted into the wood beneath the recoil pad. Winchester ~ Model 12 Custom~ 12 GA Used Guns. Chamber marked 2 3/4", choke marked full, and 14" LOP. 1 Winchester Model 70 Ultra Grade Featherweight 270 Win. The Olins used the Western ammunition plant at East Alton, Illinois, as collateral for borrowing about four million in cash, no small feat in the fall of 1931. Since Every shotgun manufacturer is a friend of mine, Askins views were well known in the industry. Thus it was that the American Rifleman staff thought it odd that Winchester brought out the 3-inch chamber in their Model 12 pump gun. a post would have spent 281.5 hours trying to correct off handed remarks as a expert about winchester model 12's & 42's. It is, somehow, not easy to avoid shoving shells wrong end first into ones gun. Some will even go 85% to 90%, but rarely. Keith, who obtained Askins Ithaca 10 magnum double upon Askins death, achieved 93% patterns with two ounces of copper-plated#3 shot in the big double. Original appearing donut post and round post vent rib Model 12s with no Simmons markings and proof marks in the proper places are generally thought by collectors to have been made to completion in the Winchester factory. This gun has been single family owned since bought used in 1967. Beautifully figured wood is solid with only light handling marks and marks on bo, This Winchester Model 12 started life in 1924 and has been customized by unknown individual at some point. A smothered roar from around the corner! This little shotgun appears to have never been assembled and and has a 28 inch full choke barrel. I still have a few 2nd style action slides left. The Model 21 received duck gun status in 1940, although 3-inch chambers could be ordered earlier. He was the chief designer of the Model 21 double, John Olins favorite. Charles Askins, in an article entitled Long Range Shotguns in the January 1930 issue of the American Rifleman, concludes that a 12-gauge magnum with 1 3/8-ounces of shot, patterning 80% or better is pretty reliable [on ducks] at 65 yards. However, Askins goes on to say I have never, personally, had a shotgun which would reach far enough. Before the eight gauge was banned in 1918, Askins had a Greener eight-gauge double with 36-inch barrels weighing 13 pounds. Ithaca brought out their Magnum 10double to use the new shell. JavaScript is disabled. Firearms dont get much more iconic than John Moses Brownings legendary Auto-5 semi-auto shotgun, affectionately called the Humpback for its distinctive drop at the rear of the receiver. When it was. First of all was the end of management by people who were not familiar or sympathetic with the gun and ammunition business. The Olins were avid duck hunters. 3-inch Super Twelve Shotshell My copy of Winchesters Catalog No. Great communications. Popularly named the Perfect Repeater at its introduction, it largely set the standard for pump action shotguns over its 51-year high-rate production life. The load averaged 67.5% (range 62-72.5%), in a 30-inch circle at 40 yards. This is why they were rust blued instead of hot blued. I would think if you did shoot you proble flinch like heck becouse ther must be a lot of jerk in you. "SN:561491. WARNING! Winchester Model 42 Slide Action Shotgun with Simmons Vent RibManufactured in 1952. Model 12 duck guns are highly specialized tools for a very limited number of duck hunters who can regularly center a duck at 40-60 yards, and need to. But I manage to concentrate, find the combination, and center a pair of easy sprigs. The finishes and rib are 100% Winchester and in great condi, Used Winchester Model 12 20 Gauge 26" barrel WS-1choked skeet Cutts compensator with restriction inserts good condition Buyer pays shipping Millers Gun Center Located in New, Winchester Model 12 pump action 12ga shotgun. Free Shipping, No Credit Card Fees. It was Western that produced the 3 1/2-inch 10-gauge magnum with 2 ounces of shot in 1932. Also, the rib and its receiver extension cover the Winchester proof marks, a sure sign that it is not factory installed. In duck shooting the proportion of magazine guns in use is much higher, probably four men in five using the repeater. Askins added, Fact is, personally, I have always thought that I was surer on the second bird with a repeater than I was with a double gun. On gauges for duck hunting: No fault is to be found with the twelve [gauge] as a duck gun, whether in double barrel with 3 inch cases or in repeaters with 2 3/4 inch. Charles Askins was the leading expert on shotguns in the first half of the last century. View cart for details. JavaScript is disabled. The slide handle of early duck guns was round with 18 circular grooves. Thanks for the reference. Deluxe checkered walnut, Its new in the original box with associate paperwork in wrapping paper.. has mi, Metal surfaces rate very good, handling marks to wood. This is a shotgun I should never have sold. Charles Askins may have influenced the decision. I have often wondered how well my guns would pattern with modern ammunition. Winchester Model 1300 Speed Pump - 12 GA $395.00: 0 $395.00 1d 15h 33m 17222600. "Metal parts of the Model 12 are machined from chrome-molybdenum, the toughest, longest wearing and finest gun steel known." Barrel lengths were 30 or 32 inches, but 32-inch barrels were discontinued in 1948. This gun is in excellent condition and has very desireable solid rib barrel with full choke. Now I have never been wrong about anything in my lifeLOLjust kidding, but the way I read it on the top of page 109JMHOThanks, WC. Bids. When you purchase through links on our site, we may earn an affiliate commission, which supports our community. A Cold War era classic with smooth lines, a legendary back story, and an exotic-sounding name, Beretta's Model 71 was definitely a mouse that roared. We join Buckingham in his ducking skiff as he is poled through the bayou by Ab, his black guide. Pictures are of the item listed. 28" vent rib, full choke barrel with front bead sight. The Winchester Model 1912 (also commonly known as the Model 12, or M12) is an internal-hammer pump-action shotgun with an external tube magazine. I decided to test the patterning of the five loads detailed in the accompanying table. I worked in two gun shops when I was in college. Need Help?service@guns.comCall (866)582-4867, PO Box 1131 13800 Nicollet Blvd Burnsville, MN 55337 2023Guns.com. The Gun and the Times The Model 12 duck gun examined by the staff of the American Rifleman in 1936 was the earliest version. Enthusiastic hunters bought the new repeater. As to price, it will also depend on gauge, barrel length, choke, barrel steel, wood type, pad vs. plate, etc. 14" LOP OVER THE ORIGINAL W, Up for sale I have a 100% NIB Winchester model 12 chambered in 16ga. Checkered stocks and extension slide handles were available as options on the standard grade throughout most of the duck guns production. This was after extensive reworking of the chokes by Ithaca. Numbers match on barrel and receiver. In reading Stadt's statements on page 109 of the latest version of this book, I don't see where he is too sure of his statements. THIS SHOTGUN WAS A LIMITED RUN OF 4000 MADE BETWEEN 93-95. However, Winchesters ribs were not marked with the Simmons name and Kansas City address as mine is. Jack OConnor was there and sets the scene nicely in the Complete Book of Shooting. Get 12 Issues a year of the country's best firearms writing. Interchangeable barrels (forend assembly) for 2 3/4-inch shells and choke of choice were special order. seller description. Severe drought conditions gripped the United States and Canada during the 1930s. Winchester proof steel is chrome-molybdenum steel. I included #2 shot because this size shot has always been my goose and turkey load in 3-inch shells. Refresh your browser window to try again. Its failure to release on discharge made it impossible to shoot doubles [at skeet] with this particular sample. The staff concluded, Mechanically, the sample was not as good as other guns of the same model. Noted were machine marks on the breech bolt, wood not closely fitted, primers struck off center and sharp edges at the chamber. Harold Williamson, in his book Winchester, The Gun That Won the West, relates that the new management of Winchester embarked on a program that involved an extraordinary departure from the companys previous operations and the investment of borrowed capital in large amounts. Winchester struggled through a decade of inept product diversification that was terminated by the Great Depression. Smith brand, by the A.H. Fox Company of Philadelphia, by Parker, and by Ithaca. Fanciers of long-range shotguns now had a 12-gauge repeater shooting a 10-gauge shot load. Notes - Delivery *Estimated delivery dates include seller's handling time, origin ZIP Code, destination ZIP Code and time of acceptance and will depend on shipping service selected and receipt of cleared payment. DAC 1 1/2"&n, FRO YOUR VIEWING IS A EXCEPTIONALY NICE MODEL 12 IN 3' HEAVY DUCK. Winchester Model 12 Takedown Slide Action Shotgun with Simmons Ventilated RibProduced in 1961. But getting back to the original question, a Simmons rib does detract from the value of a Model 12 and most people will turn away from them. Featherweight: same as above; lightweight alloy trigger guard. 31 12 ga. pump shotgun w/ Simmons ventilated rib - walnut checkered stock & forearm - & 30" The new value of a WINCHESTER MODEL 12 shotgun has fallen ($937.31) dollars over the past 12 months to a price of $484.80 . Charles Askins is the father of the late Colonel Charles Askins, Jr., of course. These were turned out by the Hunter Arms Company of Fulton, N.Y. in L.C. Winchester Model 12 12 ga 30 in Barrel 2 3/4" Full vent rib Barrel NICE! The price $379 does not seem out of line for model 12's in this area; however, my question is does the Simmons rib add or detract from the value of the gun? Very good condition overall. The less pronounced pistol grip-style buttstock of the original Model 12 was discontinued in late 1934 and is not found on duck guns. But they must pass our way to clear! Actually, it is generally thought by researchers that no Winchester factory Model 12 ribs were made or installed by Simmons. The marsh is in riot! In the 1950's Winchester's costs were losing pace with what they were ablle to sell their products for. The standard 12-gauge duck load in 1921 was a 2 3/4-inch shell holding 3 3/4-drams equivalent powder and 1 1/4-ounces of shot. Find many great new & used options and get the best deals for Winchester Model 12 12 ga 30 in Barrel 2 3/4" Full vent rib Barrel NICE! Winchester Model 12 Pigeon 28 Gauge Single Family Owned Since 1967, Vent. My 1953 duck gun has the factory solid rib. It is the skeet style of stock with a comb drop of 1 1/2 2 1/2 inches, and a 14-inch length, butt to trigger.
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